A little perspective, if you please….

17 year old Kyle Rittenhouse shot and killed two guys at a so-called protest in Wisconsin.  To me, that was clearly murder and typical of dumb Bubbas and the militia-gun mentality of the USA – oft repeated in some homicidal way or another.  But my highly respected and well-liked friend, NonCon, found that there were some aspects of the situation that could or should lead to a legal defense of self-defense.  And I do not see that.  Maybe on one charge, but not overall.

So, to better understand the counter opinion, I went on a search today for more information.  Didn’t have to go far.  There is a HUGE contingent on YOU-Tube that not only thinks sympathy for Kyle is warranted but that the two guys killed deserved to be shot and that Kyle is some kind of hero for ‘defending businesses’.  Official Bubba position: Kyle is just a ‘good guy’ who was defending the city of Kenosha from ‘bad guys’ and they cite the arrest records of the two victims to justify their opinion.

Again, I do not see that as valid in any way.  I see a lot of irrelevant information coming into play (the characters of the victims, for instance.  The intention of Kyle, the angry mob, the illegal gun, etc.).  I do not see any grounds for any kind of exoneration despite all that nonsense.  Maybe a lesser charge for the second killing but everything leading up to it is clearly Kyle-started and Kyle-caused.  In my view.

So this blog is an invitation to all my slightly more right-inclined readers to jump in and convince me that there is any justification whatsoever for 1. Kyle even being there.  2. Kyle being there with a gun.  3. Kyle wading into the crowd.  4. Kyle shooting the first guy four times.

You can cite the fact that the protest was seemingly more of a riot than a legit protest, that the victims were ‘provocative’ and that the crowd chased poor Kyle after the initial killing but let’s not dwell too long on that – they were unarmed and he went to them.  And an illegitimate protest is the responsibility of the police, not baby Bubbas-with-guns.

What I am really looking for is some understanding as to why these gun-toting Bubbas support Kyle and the police and yet do NOT condemn the police shooting of George Floyd and Jacob Blake (yes, I know that neither of the two deceased were sweethearts.  Do y’all remember Eric Garner who was choked to death by NYPD?).  If the police can kill on-the-spot everyone who is not a sweetheart, why bother with laws and courts and due process?

And why is there this ‘reaction’ by armed militia to defend businesses with deadly force anyway?  Ya gonna take it on yourself to kill people to protect 7-11 convenience stores?  Why is there this whacked-out ‘Militia movement’?  Why is it tolerated by the same police that will kill unarmed black men and women without much provocation? If the militias support the police, why are they trying to do their job?  Why are some ‘Mericans so riled up because protesters topple statues or burn debris but NOT upset when blue-uniformed killers shoot, taser and choke unarmed coloured folks?

I can understand being upset at some of the destructive elements of protests-gone-bad but, to my mind, the militias and the police are 97% wrong and the BLM protesters are 97% right. And those blacks who are out there protesting (knowing there are multiple targets on their backs) are very, very brave or very, very stupid.

And why is this all happening now?

From my perspective, this is just another era of social anger spilling over.  But what is the anger really about this time?  I know why black people are angry but why are the Bubbas so incensed?  Is it about vandalism to convenience stores?  Or about chanting de-funding cops?  “I’m a Bubba and I am furious about others burning stores and dissing cops?”  Why is this anger so directed at protesters?  Why is it NOT directed at the inept police or the currently insane government?

I have – so far – dismissed it all collectively as a bunch of Dumb Bubbas acting stupid and being ignorant and walking around armed to the teeth.  But, judging from the forums, they are a pretty large contingent.  There are a helluva lot of Bubbas out there, it seems.  And they hate protesters, they hate liberals, they hate progressives, they hate Tesla, they hate coloured people and they hate whatever Trump hates.  How does that even happen?

What am I missing?

Is it all due to Fox brainwashing?  Limbaugh race-baiting?  Trump hate-mongering? Or was it all there beforehand?  And how would either answer explain Hungary and Brazil and the Philippines going the same divisive way?  There is something global at play here.

Anyway, didn’t those media-cretins first have some early flames to fan?  Or did Rush, Glenn and Tucker start it all?  Why do I think that this is something long burning deep underground, ugly embers in their Bubba minds, Nazi-poison in their Bubba hearts?  We have a large number of angry Bubbas out there and they have seemingly been angry a very long time.

And, if it has been angering them a long time, why are they not just as mad at Republicans?

Shine a light please…..and not a light that obscures with nonsense about the most recent victims bad history (no one knows that when they kill them).  Shed some light on why a protester, a coloured person, a gay or even a Democrat deserves to be shot and killed.  I want to know why Kyle feels he has to go defend a 7-11 in Kenosha and why the negligent cops there did NOT even check him out as he waded down the street armed with an automatic rifle.

And why is that even CLOSE to OK?

36 thoughts on “A little perspective, if you please….

  1. I see your point clearly and agree with you. Some see want is happening in the USA as domestic terrorism or home grown terrorism and Kyle was just fighting terrorism. Some political parties see these events as a premise to ‘run on law and order’ and point to the street protests as a justification to support Trump to restore order. Thus making a case to fight terror with political terrorIsm: citizens being opposed by the government. The case is being made that these protest are happening mainly in cities with Democratic mayors. That line of thinking suggests that the Democrats incited Kyle to go and kill. It appears that many voters are in “echo chamber” and only want to hear ideas that are consistent with their deeply held personal convictions. Let me mention the Archangel Lucifer, and his deeply held conviction that he was superior to a God. His convictions led to his being cast out of Heaven and into the darkness of Hell. As he lay in Hell and was transformed into Satan he realized that if he can make a Hell of Heaven then he can make a Heaven of Hell.” Satan says, “It’s better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven!” Satan thus rationalized his decision to leave the light and seek darkness. Darkness is better than light so supposed Satan. A current trope Is that the Democrats or Liberals in general are evil incarnate and civil society must be destroyed for now so that it may be rebuilt or reborn. The issue that appears to be pushed aside is economic inequalities. The needed conversation has devolved into slogans like “Black Lives Matter” which is often interpreted as meaning Racism. A further trope is ‘defund the police’ a very calculated move to strike fear into the vulnerable and into Trump’s camp. Dialogue not vitriol offers some hope for a path ahead. Ending inequality is vital. Battling with tropes, repeating old arguments tends to harden the battle lines.

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  2. Well, about the only thing I now about this is that “poor Jacob” is not deceased although he might prefer that. The rest is beyond the logical common sense I have squirreled away in the last 66 years, its so far beyond what a modern civilized society should be willing to tolerate!

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  3. I would say this calls for a long debate, face to face with a good bottle of Scotch. In 1 word it would be easy to say it’s just Trump, but then I would give the guy too much credit. So there was underlying fire, injustice,hate, fear. But if you have POTUS screaming for 4 years on every channel, it was bound to put more oil on the fire

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  4. The police shot Jacob Blake( convicted sex offender, ex con, parole violator) after he resisted arrest, refused to follow instructions, walked away from the police and then as the police pointed their guns at him…………reached for something INSIDE his car…

    Kyle was at that protest exercising the same democratic rights as every other Anarchist and Bubba there.
    The first shooting.
    Kyle was running from a mob that picked him out as a lone gunman….. vulnerable.
    Someone in the mob fired a handgun into the air behind him as he was running away.
    Immediately after that….. the first victim threw a bag at Kyle hitting him…he swung around and fired 4 times at point blank range. Hitting him in the head. He killed a convicted sex offender ( i do not weep any tears for him).
    Kyle continued running from the mob as they screamed,” get that goof” while also hitting him from behind.
    The second victim ( a felon convicted of battery, spousal assault, etc etc etc)was shot after he hit Kyle with a skateboard when Kyle was lying on the ground and tried grabbing his rifle

    Skateboards can kill people…. just ask the family of THIS policeman

    https://www.abbynews.com/news/abbotsford-police-officer-assaulted-in-nelson-dies-from-injuries/

    The Third victim who was wounded was pointing a handgun at Kyle when he was shot in the arm.
    The victim was quoted as saying, “I should have killed him”

    Unarmed protesters?
    Hardly.

    The US has embraced the gun.
    When there is “civil” disobedience the guns come out on both sides.
    The “Right to Bare arms” as it were.
    As for a naive 17 year old kid who was caught up in the events…… I blame Trump for pouring gas on an already incendiary event.
    Trump, who plans on going to Kenosha tomorrow, why? For free publicity and vote pandering to the most base of his followers.
    Disgusting and criminal.
    The man is a unmitigated disaster as president and an utter pig.

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    • Attaboy…I knew you’d say much of that but – as you likely know – I disagree. Still, if that is the best argument in defending Kyle, I’ll stick to my guns, so to speak. The police are negligent and stupid. I think he started it. I think the ‘original’ police should NOT have shot Jacob 7 times in the back. We can disagree and still be friends, right? You’ve been wrong before, right? I am familiar with it. And this case might be one of those that 12 peers will have the same problem with.

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      • I was talking to some coworkers today about this whole episode and we watched the Jacob shooting ….
        Everyone said, “WHAT is he DOING?” as he walked around his car, fought off the police in a skirmish and then proceeded to walk around his car again and then open the door and lean in to get something….. bang bang bang bang bang bang bang.
        The police were firing semi auto pistols. I have fire many handguns. You can fire 7 shots in two seconds…… And usually you are amazed at how many shots you have fired when its all over.

        As for the other idiots involved in the riots.
        A stupid 17 year old kid with an Assault rifle?
        What bloody parent allows them to buy that?
        What kind of fools think its ok to TAKE a rifle to a violent protest?
        What kind of protesters think its ok to smash, loot, deface and burn private property with zero ramifications?

        And then you have Trump , mocking, deriding, insulting and baiting all the left wing crowd…….
        Insanity.

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      • A right-wingy friend of mine kept asking, “Why did he not just get on the ground like the police demanded? It was his fault for not obeying the police!” In a way, he is right. If the police are the law enforcers, and we have accepted that, then the proper action is to OBEY the police. But, but, but….black people are shot obeying the police and shot NOT obeying the police. I can afford to OBEY because by me obeying means I have a chance later to fight back – with a lawyer. I am white. But a black guy? They get shot while driving black! Jacob is wrong but, damn, how much faith is that guy gonna have in the police? If I was black in the USA I would have NO faith whatsoever. And in Trump’s America, I would get the hell out. So, Jacob saying ‘to hell with you’ is wrong and he should be taken down…..I guess. Bad Jacob. But – if he does not obey – do you shoot the guy? Do you kill the guy? Or do you shoot the tires of his vehicle? Do you shoot Jacob in the leg? Do you bonk him on the head? Do you use the three cops right beside you to wrestle Jacob to the ground? Or do you just shoot the guy dead, dead, dead? I know that many of the ‘po folk’ the police shoot and kill and are not great people. Drugs, poverty, stupidity, criminality…it all comes into play…I know that. But to KILL THEM??!! Jacob could not get far with four flat tires. Jacob has been well identified. He is toast. They DID NOT have to kill him.

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      • I might have implied when I wrote ‘dead, dead, dead’ that Jacob was dead. It could be read that way. BUT Jacob is NOT dead. I was trying to say, they were shooting the guy seven times and that has to be seen as excessive and intended to kill. They INTENDED dead, dead, dead. But, as it turns out, he survived and is ONLY paralyzed from the waist down. Just a point of clarification.

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  5. Jacob Blake has never been convicted of any crime. This can be easily fact checked but of course the easy path is a drive by smear. Since it is easier for some to believe the false claim that Jacob is an armed convicted criminal his being shot seven times in the back Is justified by some. Truth telling is vital for the health of society. Dave is correct. Dave is right. Dave has a finely tuned BS detector. The Brits would call BS, “taking a piss.”

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  6. FWIW and this information no way countenances the wanton police idiocy
    Reports about his shackle to the bed say. He has an outstanding warrant
    Whatever his gi tract has been anniliated and he is paralyzed From the waste down

    On a more positive note kayaking around Todd inlet last week saw a 70 ft ex commercial boat all painted up saying “stop whale watching .com” gotta feed their go fund me call or I am nothing.
    CBC had van aquarium ceo on today most staff were laid off today, the guy acknowledged his annual salary at near 300 grand.
    Grifters all, cya

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  7. President Duterte tells his customs chief to use, “Your gun and kill!” For Duterte extrajudicial executions are the swift action needed. Recently on this blog a reader suggested checking the number of unarmed blacks killed by the police in the USA. The inference being that in general blacks are supposed to be armed and therefore blacks in confrontations with the police are assumed to pose a grave danger to the police. To make the case to justify Jacob Blake’s killing the supposed justifications are: He turned his back, walked away, had a warrant, allegedly scuffled with police, supposedly was reaching for a knife, lacked a deferential demeanour. The policeman with the God like power of life and death shot him. The police officer in the moment unable to stop pulling the trigger after one shot. Not one but seven times. Three times in the back. Once in the arm. That’s four of the shots. No report of where the other shots went but Jacob’s children were in the car. These children might have been collateral damage. It might be this policeman lacked the emotional intelligence and training to calm the situation. If an unarmed British policeman were in this situation it might be that Jacob Blake would not have been paralyzed. Or it might be that the USA policeman might have acted exactly as his training programmed him to do. Administer a Duterte type roadside extrajudicial execution. Driving while black is a death sentence?

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  8. “If an unarmed British policeman were in this situation it might be that Jacob Blake would not have been paralyzed.”

    +++++

    No, the policeman would be dead.

    Anyone …..lining in the United States these days knows that EVERYONE could potentially have a gun.
    The statistical average to be shot by a neighbor, a friend, a co worker, a stranger OR a policeman is their Constitutional god given right.
    Ridiculous?
    Absolutely.
    Inevitable?
    Absolutely.

    I weep for innocent children mass murdered in schools in the US by other fantasizing children.
    Columbine, Sandy Hook, on and on and on……
    And they still dont change their gun laws.

    However
    I also shake my head at the arrogant stupidity of a criminal ignoring orders from armed policeman ……..expecting not to get shot……because …Black Lives Matter…..like that slogan is a shield of invulnerability

    I also shake my head at the stupidity of the police.
    The gig is up.
    The blue wall of silence to murders, assaults, lies and cover-ups is gone..
    It doesnt matter if their partner “covers” for them…..
    Everyone has a video camera………..

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  9. Well we are in the land of speculation here as are you. My speculation is that the Brit might have had better crisis resolution skills. Perhaps not. Jacob, according to the Washington Post was unarmed when shot in the back. This claim forms one of the contentious pieces of the narrative. For some Jacob got what he deserved but faced with the drawn guns and his children in the car perhaps Jacob’s instinct was to protect his boys. I agree with you on the ‘’stupidity of the police!”

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  10. You can listen to Dave. He is messing with you guys, to incite you.
    Just like the young man, Dave would use force to defend himself or his family.

    I suggest the facts, as published in American Thinker:

    The Charges Against Kyle Rittenhouse
    By Grant Baker
    On August 27th, prosecutors in Kenosha County filed six charges against Kyle Rittenhouse which read as follows:

    First degree reckless homicide, use of a dangerous weapon
    First degree recklessly endangering safety, use of a dangerous weapon
    First degree intentional homicide, use of a dangerous weapon
    Attempt first degree intentional homicide, use of a dangerous weapon
    First degree recklessly endangering safety, use of a dangerous weapon
    Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18.
    A detailed breakdown of the facts of the case can be found here. What follows is a breakdown of the law applicable to the case.

    Counts 1, 3, and 4 relate to shots fired at Joseph Rosenbaum, Anthony Huber, and Gaige Grosskreutz respectively, all of whom are on film attacking Kyle Rittenhouse as he attempts to flee. Count 2 is ancillary to Count 1, relating to Daily Caller reporter Richard McGinnis, who was following Rosenbaum at the time of the incident and was therefore in Kyle’s line of fire. Count 5 refers to the two shots fired at the unknown male who attempted a jumping stomp on Kyle’s head after he tripped and fell while fleeing a violent mob. Both shots missed and the man fled the scene. Count 6 is an attempt to punish Kyle for merely having the gun.

    The defense against Counts 1 to 5 will be Wisconsin’s broad self-defense laws. Citizens have no duty to flee when endangered (although Kyle did) and maintain self-defense privileges even if attacked by those one provokes (so long as the provocation did not include criminal entrapment). There is no duty to use the least possible force when threatened, only reasonable force, a standard judged by the person in question. In other words, prosecutors must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Kyle Rittenhouse did not believe he had risk of great bodily harm and that the force he used was unreasonable according to Kyle’s own standards. Unlikely, given the facts of the case.

    Additionally, both men killed by Rittenhouse had their hands on Kyle’s gun at the time of being shot, a detail confirmed by eyewitness Richard McGinnis and videos of the incident, making the men in possession of a gun. Both Rosenbaum and Huber were convicted felons and therefore may not possess firearms in Wisconsin. Bizarrely, even the charges mention that the men had grabbed Rittenhouse’s gun, undermining the prosecutors’ allegations. Worse yet, Gaige Grosskreutz, the third felon shot by Rittenhouse, had an illegal handgun drawn and pointed at Rittenhouse just before being shot. Grosskreutz later admitted through a third party that “his only regret was not killing the kid and hesitating to pull the gun before emptying the entire mag into him.” Grosskreutz has not been charged with a crime.

    We are left with Count 6, illegal possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18. Kyle Rittenhouse is only 17, an open and shut case, right? Not quite. There is an exception for minors under 18 years of age armed with a rifle, which Kyle was indeed armed with. There are exceptions to this exception dealing with persons under 16 and hunting approvals, but neither are applicable in this case. Kyle Rittenhouse escapes this charge as well.

    Considering the facts of the case and the state laws governing Wisconsin, it becomes clear that Kyle’s actions were not reckless — the prosecutor’s decisions were.

    The story of Kyle Rittenhouse is more than a gripping piece of news, it is a telling philosophical Rorschach test. A lone individual stood up to a mob of violent felons, abusers, and pedophiles, asserting his right to live over their lust for his blood, and won. While the American public, generous in their deference for human life, and may have paused in horror at the shootings, the tide of public opinion is turning for Kyle as the deluge of exculpatory facts break through the dam of misinformation. Americans should take note at which institutions were quick to back Kyle, which condemned him, and the cowards in between.

    America’s Founders foresaw the need for armed young men to rise to the defense of their communities against rioters, looters, and foreign invaders. Men younger than Kyle fought in the American Revolution, put down insurrections under George Washington, and trained in militia groups in anticipation of threats. It was for these men that the 2nd Amendment was written, and it is men like Kyle whom the amendment must continue to protect.

    The frailty of the charges brought against Kyle Rittenhouse show the well from which the insurrectionist mobs draw their power: the political class, the prosecutor’s office, and the media. Rittenhouse is charged with allegations refuted by the prosecutor’s own complaint, but the Portland murderer can gun down Trump supporters in the street because prosecutors declined to press charges for his gun crimes. The privilege of immunity for city leaders and prosecutors who abdicate their duties must end. It is time for President Trump to order his Justice Department to lock up corrupt prosecutors and city leaders who knowingly put people in danger.

    Until then, we depend on citizens like Kyle Rittenhouse

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    • While it is true that I would use force to defend myself and, in some circumstances, I hope I would employ deadly force if warranted, the key words there are ‘if warranted’. Kyle’s claim of self defense was not warranted until AFTER he killed Rosenbaum. The crowd threatened him. Butbear in mind, the crowd might be seen as heroes had they succeeded. A guy in a crowd who stops a shooter is usually hailed as a hero. I believe Kyle created the entire incident by marching into a crowd armed and they were NOT armed. As it turned out, one was armed and one used his skateboard as a weapon but Kyle did not know that. Kyle is wading into a nasty crowd with an automatic. He’s omnipotent. A little drunk with firepower. What did he think would happen?
      I also do not accept that it is Kyle’s role to ‘police the streets’. If that is so, why have cops and courts? Why not just arm everyone and say ‘go at it!?’ Kyle is NOT a hero in my books. He is and was a young fool caught up in a sick society that was all acting out – from the cops to the bad protesters to himself and the Camo-goon militias. Biggest negligence? Cops. Second biggest: Kyle. Most aggravating person: Rosenbaum. Most deadly person that night? Kyle. Dumbest nation on the planet: I guess that one is up for debate……..

      Liked by 1 person

  11. Enter this to your debate. In the video of the event, a close eyewitness to the first man, Rosenbaum, being shot describes the situation as Rosenbaum, after chasing Kyle down, having his hands on the defendents weapon trying to take it from him. Read his deposition at 6:51 in the video (pause it there and read it…)

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    • The more that comes out defending Kyle, the more my argument weakens. I see that. But the essence of my argument does NOT weaken. In fact, it gets stronger. Kyle started it!
      Now you can argue that he was ‘just taking a walk’ or that he has a ‘right to bear arms’ or even that he has a ‘right to defend himself’. But the guys shot were NOT shooting at Kyle – even the guy who had a gun did NOT shoot Kyle. They were just ‘bad boys’ being bad. And I get that. And Rosenbaum was a total puke. I get that, too. (I might have punched Rosenbaum in the face had I been Kyle). The other two could have been heroes trying to disarm another ‘Merican mass shooter. There is certainly enough mass shootings to go on. We will likely never know the full story of the second half of that incident. But the first half is all Kyle.
      Put another way: would you, who lives a distance away, decide to go get a gun and go ‘show your rights’ to a crowd that you think are ‘bad’ guys? If not, why not? It’s midnight (or so) and the angry mob sets fire to a dumpster. There are a dozen or so hooded thugs yelling and acting stupid. So, do you put a mag in your rifle and wade in? None of them are showing weapons. The police are two blocks back in armoured vehicles drinking coffee and eating do-nuts. What part of that scene appeals to you so much that you go in? Just to see what happens? And, when the SHTF, you run because you are legitimately afraid and they run after you. At one point do you think : “Geez, what was I thinking? I may have to shoot people to get out of here!”

      My answer: I would have foreseen that entire possibility before I left home and would have stayed put. “Geez, I am not a fan of the police but I sure hope they do a good job this time. Glad I pay my taxes and am law-abiding. Hate to get caught up in any weirdo crossfire.”
      Or, do I say, “Hell, man. Let’s go up to Kenosha and support our police in the armoured vehicles. They need MY help so they can enjoy their coffee break!”

      I can hear you and I understand you. I can also understand the THEORETICAL argument that Kyle had a right to walk the streets with his gun despite an angry, rioting mob. But we all have rights that discretion and good sense says should not be exercised sometimes. Like your right to safely cross a street at night wearing black. But, if there were tons of semis with trailers on a slippery winter road going 60 mph and you wanted to cross that road, would you step in front of them because it is your right? Or do you think, ‘It is better for all of us if I just let them pass.’?
      You might also argue that “Well, Kyle is just 17 and is immature and just didn’t know what he was getting into.”
      Well: bottom line – Kyle got out safely. Two/three others did not. Kyle had a gun and he should not have been there. Kyle was doing the work of who? The police? Or was he doing the work of a vigilante? There are consequences for that kind of stupidity. And there are those who do think he should bear any. I disagree. I think Kyle started it.

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  12. Kyle was helping friends of his protect a business from looting and arson, an auto body shop. He should have stayed with their group, but went outside alone, and that is where the mob set upon him. If things had gone, in Kenosha, like they have in cities such as Portland, Seattle and other red state cities where the Governors have insisted on NO Federal Govt. assistance, and Mayors and prosecutors insisted on NO arrests or charges be brought against rioters (yes, that is a FACT in Portland, and Seattle…), Kenosha would have likely been under prolonged weeks of siege and rioting, looting and arson, like Seattle and Portland and some other eastern cities. Instead, Wisconsin’s Governor (unlike in Portland and Seattle) finally called the National Guard to assist Kenosha Police:
    https://wkow.com/2020/08/26/gov-evers-approves-additional-national-guard-troops-for-kenosha-deployment/

    The outsider, not local to Kenosha, Globalist Foundation Funded, protest groups: BLM and Antifa, travel to, settle in, and have prolonged riots ({B}urning {L}ooting and {M}urder) in any place that will NOT arrest and prosecute them. They claim to be legitimate protesters, but bringing vandalism, looting, arson and violence to the point of murder are NOT the things of legitimate peaceful protest.

    Kenosha has proven that places where law enforcement are aided by National Guard and Federal assistance being requested by Governors and Mayors the riots there last a day or two and then they all leave. (Rioting is no fun when you get arrested for it!).

    The rioting Kyle got caught up in probably would not have occurred had the State Governor accepted the offer of Federal Assistance earlier, when it was first offered. A video of the aftermath of the shooting shows Kyle trying to turn himself in to several National Guard armored vehicles coming on scene just then, but he was hollered at to get off the street. They should have been there days earlier, but the Governor had at first refused Federal Govt. offers to help for several days prior.

    Actually, had the Governor accepted President Trump’s offer to assist Kenosha’s Police Dept. when the offer was first made? The tragedy of that shooting would quite likely not have occurred.

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    • Turns out all the BLM people are saying, “That is not us. We don’t burn and loot. Those are whack-jobs and only come out after dark when the legit protesters leave.”
      I have to say, neither Rosenbaum nor the other ‘rioters’ looked like the folks in the peaceful protests. They were not peaceful and carrying signs. Which, by the way is a right that ‘Mericans have. And furthermore, the BLM people claim the rioters are alt-right trouble-makers.
      I am not so sure about that. Maybe. But, if that was the case, why would they not align themselves with Kyle? Birds of a militia feather kinda thing. So, I don’t know how bad the rioters were but I suspect that they were NOT legit protesters. And lets not go too far down the road of needing Federal troops. C’mon. Wisconsin has police. Wisconsin has State troopers. The bad boys were generally NOT armed. Instead of Kyle going in to save stores, why didn’t the police?

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      • Surely you are NOT saying that BLM is a globalist funded movement? Orchestrated by Gates and Soros? And that BLM does NOT have a legitimate complaint about police abuse of people of colour and the marginalized to the extent of murder? I have friends marching in BLM protests in California and New York. They are truly outraged by police brutality and that is why they are marching and they are not being paid or incited by anyone but the circumstances they find to be so appalling. To be fair, none of those same people would protest past say, 9:00 pm ’cause they have jobs to go to the next day. They carry signs and show solidarity with the poor and mistreated. Nothing more sinister. And, and, and…this ugly scenario is very much like the ones laid out by Steve Bannon. If ya wanna suspect ‘insurrectionists’ suspect the alt-right. Way, way, way more likely because Trump loves it. Trump loves the riots. Trump loves the rioters. Why? Because his only political message is ‘law and order’. Translation: Fascism.

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  13. BLM does have followers who are legitimate protesters. People there peacefully and NOT armed up. Mixed in with them, however, (and almost ALL of Antifa’s members..) are plenty of agitators: Professional Rioters funded and paid for and bussed around to different riot venues by Globalist Foundations like “Open Society”. They are the folks there carrying the Communist Chinese Party Flags and burning US flags while chanting “Down With America”. Defacing public property with paint and trying to burn it down. Wearing homemade and military body armor, helmets and tear gas masks, and carrying weapons (even though many of them are convicted felons prohibited from even owning firearms, like all 3 of the ones Kyle had to shoot). Folks that show up and vandalize and arson and loot property, including public historical monuments, assault and murder innocent people. Folks demanding the de-funding of police departments and going to the homes of local politicians threatening and intimidating them into agreeing with and supporting Shrinking and DeFunding Urban big city police dept. budgets. They bribe and pay off or intimidate the local district attorney prosecutors into not holding or convicting any rioters who are arrested. In Portland and Seattle almost NONE get arrested or charged. A lot of this stuff could never be considered peaceful legal protest.
    These people are radical Marxists trying to foment revolution and overthrow the existing government. The Antifa Thugs are generally braver when they outnumber their assault victims (like the ones who attacked Kyle).

    In contrast: The ones some (and the establishment controlled propaganda fake news networks) like to call “Alt-Right”, like the Proud Boys, are falsely portrayed by fake news media as being “white supremacists” (many are blacks, asian, hispanics or native). Almost all are military veterans. A lot of them are current or former law enforcement. These guys are the ones WAVING American Flags (not burning them). They are not being paid to be there. They come at their own expense. Many are professionals like Doctors, Lawyers and First Responders. Some arrive on Big Harleys with American Flags streaming behind. The cops generally like these guys, frankly, many of them ARE current or former cops. They have taken to letting them tussle with the Antifa types, and when their numbers are comparable they always send them packing, even though they are not armed up and armored like the Antifa are. Some of the patriots do open carry firearms (if legal to do so in that jurisdiction..) The local cops are often favorable towards these guys. They make their job easier. The bad guys just don’t like to go where there’s a lot of “patriots”.

    The National Guard are NOT Federal Troops. They are usually from the state, or nearby states, they get deployed to, and are deployed by the State Governors. In some emergency circumstances the Federal Gov. can issue them orders. Trump has not done so yet.

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  14. Another “cause” is these damned mobile phones and social media. These days EVERYTHING is filmed from 10 different angles and put on social media, and anyone can choose the movie that suits him/her at best. We have a situation here, where Islamic youngsters challenge police constantly, filming these aggressions from a dozen different angles, and then put on social media that police is harrassing them. So as a cop, you know EACH time that you are out there, that you will be challenged, verbally and physically (like stones and bottles thrown at them), but THAT part is NEVER filmed, only the part where the police finally steps in and arrests these guys. And then it’s ALL over social media as in “police harrasses islamic people without reason”…..YEAH, RIGHT!! So being a cop is extremely difficult these days, because you have to think 50 times before doing something, knowing that every action can be and will be used against you. And these youngsters are exploiting the social media to claim parts of cities, where police is no longer “allowed” in, so thaty can do whatever they want then. I am not blindly defending police here, or in the US, but we make their lives and work conditions nearly impossible. Fortunately, we are not allowed to carry arms, so we have less shooting incidents on streets and schools. Second problem is these youngsters are arrested, and 1 hour later they are out on the streets again, because our legal system allows them to get away with it, over prisons are overcrowded so they turn them loose again, so we are again fuelling this situation….if I am such a kid, knowing that worts case I MIGHT be arrested, but back on the streets in 1 hour, why would I stop and treat police and fellow citizens with respect?? about 20 yeras ago, when this happened, police took these youngsters off the streets, took them back to the police station and kicked there butts untill they couldn’t sit for a few days….now THAT helped, I can assure you! About 40 yeras ago, this buttkicking was done by their parents for not being respectfull to other people

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  15. Look on the bright side Dave.
    When you comment on contentious current events…..your comment section lights up like a Christmas tree.

    If this get boring toss out comments like
    “The Queen needs an enema!”
    Or
    “Trudeau needs a sex change to become a man!”

    Always good for 10-15 replies…… 🙂

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    • I have no problem with it. None. Not at all. I asked for opinions and got ’em. I am a bit surprised that Kyle received as much sympathy and support as he did but I think the support is more for being on the right side of the law rather than Kyle’s particular situation. There are a lot of law and order folks out there. But, in that segue, Kyle is guilty of breaking some severe laws. So, the law and order types will be ticked when the law lands heavily on Kyle. Will he beat the charges? Maybe you are right and he will beat most of them but ‘reckless endangerment’ is – for me – open and shut. But, we’ll just have to see.

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  16. Kyle was carrying an AR 15 style rifle in Kenosha the night he killed two people. Not wishing to go down the rabbit hole of a circulating video which justified Kyle’s use of deadly force. I agree with Dave that Kyle will be found guilty a crime. Beyond the court finding of Kyle’s possible guilt or innocence is an issue seen by many Canadians of the apparent decline of civility in the USA. The American border is currently closed which is in my view a good thing. America has permissive gun laws which as the presidential election campaign intensifies more killings seem likely. Many Americans have the advantages of ‘first world living conditions‘ defended with a ‘fourth world militia mind set.
    Trump is signalling that the streets are filled with domestic terrorists hence the gathering of wanta be militiamen out to kill someone. Trump is signalling that he will abort the revolution griping America. Dire times are unfolding in America. These times in the USA pose a threat to the entire world.

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    • I agree. Whichever way the Rittenhouse case unfolds, the troubled US will remain troubled. I have some ‘Merican friends telling me they are definitely leaving and hoping to get into Canada – why? – because either way the election goes, they fear the unrest will only get worse. They are sick of it and embarrassed by it. I think they may also have some personal and family safety fear to add to those feelings.
      My readers who sympathize or at least understand Kyle may seem a smidge to the right of me, the pinko-Greenie, semi-socialist that I am , but I doubt very much that any one of them is comfortable with the tensions playing out down there and the increasing manifestation of a fascist movement in the police, Bubbas and Republicans. My surprise is that there are so many of them! How do you get out thousands of angry armed Bubbas to protect 7-11’s when you can’t get 100 of them to help hurricane victims or the typically tornado-exploded trailer parks? The US has thousands of ‘militia’ and not much social conscience.
      Look at their pointed NON mask-wearing as visual proof of that in the daytime and then see them as the masked-up and camouflaged, gun-toting imbeciles who patrol the urban streets at night. What a mess.

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  17. You hit it on the nail on the head America is experiencing In some quarters a rise of Fascism. You are surprised that there are so many Fascists. Like you I am also confused. I have a theory that the rise of Fascism is embedded assumptions of inequality attributed to a scapegoat. In WW 2 the German Fascists blamed Jews and began to attack them. Similarly Trump has identified a target for the Trump supporters holding economic grievances. So we have Black Lives Matter opposed by white disadvantaged militiamen. It is the white and black side of economic disadvantage. Trump is manipulating poor whites to see the blacks as the villains and he is scapegoating them. This only one theory accounting for the rise of Fascism because many other complications are at play. Social Conservatives also have a set of issues that drive them to support Trump.

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  18. Fascism is on the rise because fascists hate the Citizen choices that democratic countries hold dear. When armed militiamen take to the streets with a seventeen year old Kyle carrying an AR-15 and he kills two people the argument that Kyle was defending himself rings hollow. Kyle did not have a peaceful intent by his actions that night. Kyle was looking trouble and trouble embraced him.

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    • I dont think “fascism” is on the rise…….
      It’s “Bullshite-ism”.
      Every lunatic on the planet can spew their paranoid, unfiltered, uncensored vitriol for everyone else to read.
      The Media has to worry about libel and slander.

      Mr and Ms Anonymous can say anything about anyone and sit back and watch the show.
      I’m wondering which will self destruct first….democracy or the internet.

      I’m hoping the internet.

      Not to worry Dave.
      I’ll still send you “snail” mail….. 🙂

      Like

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